JUDE. The machine was rolling and it just went. I asked Christine if I should redo it. I thought it was too rough. She said, "But you captured the emotion. I'd leave it alone." I think she was right. It gives an accurate picture of letting the song come to you.
FI What have you done to promote fenceposts?
Well, the internet is one hell of a resource. I've sent CD's all over the world and gotten responses. Here at home in Omaha, it's another thing. There is a youth movement on at the local paper the World Herald , and unless you are young and alternative, they are not going to write about you. It's not a new thing though. I've tried every entertainment writer they've hired for the last 20 years and - no dice.
Oh- I cannot forget my main promoter- my lovely wife Christine. She gets the word out. She thinks there is some discrimination against us old school guys. Do I agree? Maybe. My wife tells me- be positive! Omaha is on the musical map.
Indie label, Saddle Creek, a young kid from Dundee, Conor Oberst ...... he is 24 years old, and just recently went to Nashville to sing with Emmylou Harris, and taped Austin City Limits!! More power to him.
26 years ago when I was 24, there were two big goals I had, sing with Emmylou, tape Austin City limits- has it been around that long? (asked by Joe)
So, I hope he is grateful for that-- that is a big thing for a young man, an Omahan, a musician. Now, I will weep, openly.
FI- Are you working on a follow up CD?
It's written. I have the songs in an order. When you wait so long to do the first one, you begin to build up a backlog.
I bought a different home studio- good idea? We'll see. More work. It should be done this summer, 2005. This time I hope to tie in with a record label. I need someone to do the promotion. I'm searching.
FI- What took so long?
That's a long story. I'm working on that story, too. This winter some time will be set aside to putting that story in order. My first completed song came when I was 38. That was Fenceposts. The idea had been around since high school. It was equal parts waiting until I felt it was done properly, and conquering that old feeling that this was something someone else could do- but not me. I would see an artist like John Prine who's first record, released when he was 23, was a landmark. To have that gift so young! So we wait, and live, and learn, and our own voice comes. First you have to surrender though. Get that first one and run it up the flagpole.
FI- Some advice for someone else who takes on a project like this?
There are so many outlets these days, so many ways to learn the process. If you have something to say and you are determined- I would say, don't think in terms of results. Do it from the heart. If you do it for a small circle of friends- that's enough. What's important is the effort.
FI- Is that true for performing as well?
Absolutely.
FI- Do you still enjoy playing dates?
I do. But ask me that when it's 2:00 A.M. and we're loading up the van and it's 20 below windchill index on a Nebraska February night, and some bald bartender is giving us s**t , and I might give you a different answer. I'll always do it. Might have to hire some young guys to carry the the heavy stuff though. We don't do as many clubs any more, anyway.
I turned 50 last year. I've been playing gigs since 1972. Hundreds of them. All the way from the loudest, off the wall honky tonk to concert halls and Jazz on the Green in front of 8000 people. I have gigs through Rhythm Collective, which I still really enjoy, so I get to do those, and I do the jobs as a single, the tunes I've written are fun to do live. I do the Thursday night Crosswords poetry open mic, at a fairly new club- Mick's in Benson-- it's about a block and a half from where we are sitting------a blues gig mostly--- so I get to do something different again*--- I go up to Earl Bates acoustic jam at Louis on Wednesday nights. They know me there. It's great, there are open mic's all around town--- there is even a Country music jam once a month at the 49'er, isn't that great! The young people want to play the American Roots again!! I think that is just fantastic. .
It seems we've put our musical differances aside, The musicians who view music as competition. It's changing. I see more drawing together, more realizing we are all in this together, more of a 60's feel.
It's nice to work with people who understand music is not a contest. Joseph Mitchell for instance, understand's this. He is down to earth.
Now, I do not write political songs- I have opinions, yes, like all of us, I grew up on protest songs. I'll fight for your right to defame this country..... But, I see people with hatred toward our president, our way of life, our values- You will not hear me running people down with music- I don't like it.
FI- I've heard you play acoustic and electric, any preferences?
I love the acoustic stuff. The simplicity of it- the fact you can take it anywhere, campfires out in the country, sitting around the living room. On the front porch. people can sing along to an acoustic. My 2nd CD which I am working on will be an all acoustic CD. Now when I strap on my Telecaster- that is something else entirely. I can blast it out loud- rock and roll and blues, hard country, rockabilly. Seperate personalities? perhaps. I like them both.
FI- Why do you like the Tele?
Mostly because of Waylon. In !975 I thought he was the best. That old leather covered Tele of Waylon's played through a phase shifter. Just Cool. Waylon's 1974 album, Honky Tonk Heroes, mostly songs written by Billy Joe Shaver. Great album. You knew the chicks dug Waylon too.
FI- How about musical directions?
That, to me, is dictated by the song. We all have listened to an enormous amount of music in our lives- diverse. So the song points the direction, and your own voice lets the song breathe. I hope this doesn't sound too generic, but songs are like children. They are gifts. You guide them, and then let them go. I don't plan any drastic changes though. I still have old friends who have difficulty with my playing in Rhythm Collective. It's not what they are used to hearing. I needed a change. To get outside the box. It's brought so many blessings. My wife for instance. It was necessary to change to find her. And change can be scary. I could see doing an album of spiritual songs. Perhaps a cover album.
FI- Will you use other players this time?
I'd love to. I get to work with such great musicians. It was never a matter of not wanting to have my friends play on the record.
FI- What about Rhythm Collective? What's going on there. I s there a new CD on the way?
We still need to push Converging Forces. It's a great record. Joseph Mitchell is one hell of a songwriter. It just needs to get in to the right hands- off it goes. We need to get back in the studio. We've been doing some cool new songs, live..
This band means a lot to me. First we are very close and yet we have an intensity that gives us a rare drive. I met my wife through this band.She loves to dance to us. She's gotten used to the musicians life. It has given me many blessings- many friends I've met through Rhythm Collective.
FI- What are you listening to?
Nickel creek. What a record. Where did these kids come from? Guy Clark- Cold Dog Soup. Maybe his best. And that is saying a lot. Tim O'Brien, Red on Blonde. Dylan songs done Bluegrass. Great album. Emmylou Harris and Spyboy. Of course Emmylou has been my favorite female singer for a long time. She reinvents her music every few years- this CD has Buddy Miller on guitar and harmony vocals. Amazing guitarist. Steve Earle- Train a Comin', the Oh Brother soundtrack. T-Bone Burnette and the Coen brothers sure gave that great music a big jump start. The Essential Leonard Cohen.
The Freewheeling Bob Dylan. even that young he was our best songwriter. Love and theft- Dylans new voice- still the voice of our generation, all you fellow baby boomers out there. As a songwriter, this album is, lyrically the best thing he's ever done, and the band! Charlie Sexton, Augie Meyer, Larry Campbell- (how about that banjo on Floater (too much too ask) It's one of his best. I saw him in Lincoln last summer...... Interesting. I write to Gillian Welch, Time the Revelator. What a talent.. Love David Rawlings sparce guitar work, and production. It has a great flow that keeps it in my CD player on a regular basis. Interesting, both Dylan and David Rawlings look for that other worldly flow in their music- mojo, voodoo, spiritflow-- whatever it is- they conjure it up (for a song that defines it- Hell, by The Squirrel Nut Zippers. Spooky good.
Southern Culture on The Skids- Cheap Hotel. I heard it on internet radio. What a great deal that is. Bootliquor.com is my favorite.
FI- How about a musical assessment?
Around our own town here- it's been tough times for live music. Fewer venues, and the big shows seem to be hurting the most. I see people wanting their music simpler- acoustic stuff done in the living room or out in the yard. This points to the interest in acoustic music peaking- So the new venues in town reflect that-- I still hope to do Shady Grove gigs-- we are kind of semi retired now, but more and more young people are out enjoying Bluegrass and roots music It reminds me of the 70's. Young people want the roots. They want the basics. They want to go back to the country. So maybe we'll do a reunion sometime. Maybe a Fast Freight (a band Joe was with in 78 and 79) reunion , too.
I keep track of the alternative stuff too. I hope I never get to a point where I lose interest in what the young people are putting out.
There is one artist in the alternative field who is selling huge amounts of records. Excellent musician A friend of mine asked if I wanted to borrow his CD to listen to. I replied, "No."
"Why not," he said.
"He has no beliefs. In anything. He has no heart to write with, No beliefs, no soul. If there is nothing more, nothing to strive for you have only stagnation. I have no interest in that,"
There is another songwiter, extremely popular, who was quoted as saying, 'I use biblical references because they are colorful, not out of any spiritual feeling.' That is sad. I gave her music away. It is a lie.
FI- Favorite musicians?
Too many. In my record collection, Bach sits next to Buck- Owens. Miles Davis next to Woody Guthrie. Frank Sinatra next to Brian Setzer. I usually hear local people play, so that is what I've learned from. You can hear the recordings but until you sit in a room with someone you don't really see what makes them tick, how their personality shapes their songs. I think Omaha has some extraordinary musicans. Musicians from Omaha have traditionally had to leave town to make it in the music business. The ones who stay usually have other reasons for playing music- something I find interesting. People who have responsibilities, and so aren't able, or just don't want to pack up and leave for Nashville or L.A. Omaha is an attractive place to live, but the things that some people complain about here are the exact reasons others stay. Naturally I like to listen to other guitar players. There are two brothers here in town, Mark* and Neil Johnsen that just knock me out. Mark can play slide, blues, country; Neil just swings. So smooth. He's got an old light blue Fender Jazzmaster. Oh- and both of them are terrific singers too.
The guys I work with are the guys I like to hear. The chemistry is what makes it fun. You can be the best player in the world but if you can't get along with people, what good is it?
I worked wih a drummer, Dale Downs off and on or many years. We developed this musical bond that let us pass ideas back and forth instinctively. Amazing. He knew where I was headed before I did. That is what you look for. That is why to me, striving for simplicity is a goal- to connect to people the message must touch them. Simple just works.
FI- You seem to like story songs-
Absolutely. I like stories. People doing the things that get them through their days- That is the interesting stuff.
FI- What comes to mind?
Music stories? I was playing in a band in 1979. This was during the urban cowboy surge, and we did outlaw stuff and traditional; a lot of swing. The band was called Fast Freight. We had a promo picture taken at the Zoo Bar in Lincoln that our manager Jim Ludwig had made into a poster. Only picture of that group I know of. Wish I could find a copy of it. Maybe in the Zoo Bar archives. I heard Larry B. used to keep all that old stuff around. Anyway- we were playing a 5 nighter at a place on the south side called the Armadillo Club. I was working 50 hours a week on my day job, driving to Lincoln 5 nights a week til 1 in the morning, and trying to keep a marriage together. The place was packed on Saturday night.
We had a steel player working with us that lived in Lincoln. During the 2nd set I noticed this tall blonde on the side of the stage. She was mesmerized, dancing to her own rhythms. We got ready for a break and I was walking off the stage.
"Psst!"
I looked around.
"Psst!"
It was this girl.
"Me?"
"Yeah. What's his name?"
"Who?"
"You know. Him over there." she gestured toward the steel guitar. "You know.....The one who sits at that little table."
You see some amazing things through the years, from the stage. I guess the change I've made music wise, is my desire to connect with people. I didn't get involved for a long time. I was content to play the songs, count my blessings that I was able to do that. Since I started writing my own stuff, it is easier, and much more important to me to connect with the people who are listening. I know how transient this life is. I want to make each musical moment count.
* After this interview Mark Johnsen passed away. We'll never really know what happened that night, but we'll miss you, buddy.
*2 Well, I was doing this gig. Phased out. If I were to guess, someone didn't want to share the spotlight. It happens. They never say that though. In this case it was, "Hey Joe, we're going to try something different for a few weeks- we'll call you."
